Talk:Abduction of Lyanna Stark
Fan theories I've noticed that the fan theory (the accuracy of which i'm not trying to debate) that Rhaegar may not have kidnapped Lyanna keeps getting added to this page and others related to it. It's getting to the point where it's becoming an edit war, which is why I'm trying to start this discussion, though the main user who is readding this theory is ignoring the discussions I've added to the talk pages of their accounts. This seems inappropriate to me since this is meant to be a wiki, not a fansite that debates theories. Since none of the characters or official series material put the kidnapping into debate (no matter how much we may want to add our own interpretation to certain statements), it seems pretty clear that the theory and other fan bias should not be included. This would of course change once or if the theory proved true. But as it stands now, I see no reason why this theory in particular should be allowed here when any other theory wouldn't be. Arya Baratheon (talk) 19:27, April 13, 2015 (UTC) ::So right now, the page looks as it should? With it stated "speculation"... since that is what it is?? 19:30, April 13, 2015 (UTC) :: But in-universe it's not speculated. It's stated as a fact and none of Rhaegar's supporters say that it's in question. They just praise him for other deeds and claim that he loved Lyanna with no mention of Lyanna's feelings, neither of which frame the situation as speculative. Those quotes might cause readers to speculate, which is causing this issue, but none of the characters voice any different view of the kidnapping yet. Arya Baratheon (talk) 19:39, April 13, 2015 (UTC) :So in essence, it is more "known", than having to have information and others backing it as proof? Sorry, new to this issue so trying to figure out what's going on. 19:51, April 13, 2015 (UTC) :::Long story short: there's a book-fan-theory that Lyanna wasn't kidnapped but went willingly with Rhaegar, thus wasn't kidnapped, however it's not confirmed in the books (and likely never will be since all people involved are dead), and people keep trying to add it here as if it was a fact rather than an unconfirmed fan-theory. DRAEVAN13 19:56, April 13, 2015 (UTC) ::So the page correct right now? Is it free from speculation articles? If so, I an protect it from this happening again. 19:57, April 13, 2015 (UTC) ::::No. Right now it says "Robert thinks" and "The rebels think", which implies they're wrong, and that Lyanna did love Rhaegar. DRAEVAN13 20:00, April 13, 2015 (UTC) :Can you fix it for me and let me know once it looks correct? 20:03, April 13, 2015 (UTC) :::I would argue that it's correct now since the fan speculation has been removed. Arya Baratheon (talk) 20:05, April 13, 2015 (UTC) You guys are killing me. lol Are you two on the same page? If so, just let me know when it does look 100% right, and I will protect it. haha 20:06, April 13, 2015 (UTC) : haha, I think we're on the same page. DRAEVAN13 might be referring tothis past edit but I've since restored it to the right version. Arya Baratheon (talk) 20:19, April 13, 2015 (UTC) : Now it's fine, yes. Even if the book theory pans out this is still a Wiki about the show, so this book theory has no place here. DRAEVAN13 20:40, April 13, 2015 (UTC) ::::OK, protected now. If ya'll ever see anything that needs to be edited, let me know, and I'll unlock it for you, then lock it back. Thanks. 20:43, April 13, 2015 (UTC) Rape? In the text was written that Rhaegar raped Lyanna, but can we be sure about that? That's what Robert Baratheon said, and as much as we can know through the novels, it's also possible that Lyanna ran away with the dragonprince! --Exodianecross (talk) 11:38, October 7, 2015 (UTC) Well, Robert Baratheon isn't the only one who says it and given how the abduction took place. Other characters and out of universe sources do as well. It isn't even likely that he was the one who conveyed the original story of it in universe, you know, since he wasn't in the area and her family/allies were. But that's neither here nor there. There's no reason to add fan spec to a wiki. There are message boards for that. Plus, it looks like the show might be getting to more info about this subplot in the coming season. Arya Baratheon (talk) 14:56, October 7, 2015 (UTC) Unless we get evidence in the show (book-only info doesn't count here) that she went with him willingly, the article should be left as it is. DRAEVAN13 16:20, October 7, 2015 (UTC) I just gave this page a quick update. We do need to keep it ambiguous about whether or not Rhaegar actually raped Lyanna -- just mentioning "The Martells think she ran off with him willingly" etc., pointing out the ambiguity in the TV show itself. I gave it a quick update but given how prominently the Tourney of Harrenhal was mentioned in Season 5 I'm pretty sure we're going to get a big update about it in the upcoming Histories & Lore for Season 6 due in one month, so we'll do a more thorough overhaul of the page then when we have new material to work with.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 18:48, February 14, 2016 (UTC) But this update goes against canon. No where in the books or the show does any character, not even Dany or the Martells, say that Lyanna ran away willingly. This is is what Oberyn said in Two Swords, "And beautiful, noble Rhaegar Targaryen left her for another woman." There aren't any quotes from him, Doran, the Sand Snakes, Ellaria, Arianne, Quentyn, or Trystane where they say that Lyanna willingly chose to run away. I know fan like to speculate about things and project their theories onto the text, but speculation doesn't equal canon. Instead of adding fan theories and inaccurate information now, why don't we remove it and wait for any canon information (be it TV show or book related) that gives this alternative view - if that ever happens? Fan theories should be left fansites, not wikis. Arya Baratheon (talk) 02:40, February 15, 2016 (UTC) ....(spends time re-reading TV continuity evidence) .....yeah....I agree with you completely, it needs to be rewritten yet again. Alright, rewrite it as you will now, I've got a ton of other stuff to set up before Season 6 starts, and when the Histories & Lore come out in a month I presume there's going to be a whole one on "The Tourney of Harrenhal", at which point I will devote my full focus to it. I'm juggling a dozen different tasks at the moment. Ack, it was locked since last April due to pervasive vandalism. Well, I've unlocked it for now, go on ahead.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 02:45, February 15, 2016 (UTC) Name Change Shouldn't we now change the name of this article, as it is now clear that Lyanna was not abducted or kidnapped, but ran away willingly?